#also the scarface bit made me laugh and i hope it does the same for you! lol | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

thecostumeplot · 4 years ago

Text

Episode 13: His Girl Friday & Roman Holiday

Please consult these Instagram slideshows for accompanying images: His Girl Friday Roman Holiday

Both:

Welcome to The Costume Plot.

Jojo:

I'm Jojo Siu.

Sarah:

and I'm Sarah Timm. We're professional designers with a passion for costume design and the performing arts. Our podcast does contain spoilers.

Jojo:

We hope you'll join us every other week as we delve into the wonderful world of costume design in The Costume Plot. [music]

All right.

Sarah:

[sings] Welcome back, welcome back.

Jojo:

Welcome to The Costume Plot. [both laugh]

Sarah:

It's us again!

Jojo:

Yaaaay! what are we on now? Month four, five?

Sarah:

Good question. Yeah?

Jojo:

I've lost track. It means we're that far in.

Sarah:

and we're still enjoying it...

Jojo:

That's a good sign.

Sarah:

...which is good.

Jojo:

Yes. Some little bits of homework, but at least we're enjoying the process.

Sarah:

Hey, it's-- every time I'm like, "Oh, no, I have to sit down and watch that movie," I end up really enjoying myself. And I do my research. And I like the research part. So I'm still having fun. Even sometimes I forget to make time to do it. [both laugh]

Jojo:

It's true. All right. So today, our theme is going to be black and white movies.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

We haven't really covered this yet. So this is kind of a new platform to talk about costumes. And one of the things that we are going to talk a lot about, or I assume we're going to talk a lot about, Sarah, is that, you know, how do we do costumes? And how do we differentiate characters when you're limited to a color palette of only monochrome.

Sarah:

Yep.

Jojo:

Because you know, now we're not looking at 1000s of saturate colors and ways to parallel you know, characters and things like that. So there's a very fine art of knowing how to balance textures and patterns and things like that in a black and white film. So, really excited about that. I'm going to be going first today, so I'm super excited.

Sarah:

Yay!

Jojo:

I'm going to be covering his girl Friday, which features Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell. I'll tell you a couple fun facts about that in a second, but it was released in 1940. So there's a lot of 1940s silhouettes that you'll see in our costumes for this one. It was directed by Howard Hawks, who actually was a humongous conglomerate in the film industry. He did Scarface, Bringing Up Baby...

Sarah:

Wow.

Jojo:

... Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, Only Angels Have Wings. So he's actually worked with Cary Grant quite a few times. I think Russell-- or sorry, Rosalind Russell was probably not one of his regulars. But she got really famous through this movie. So we'll talk a little bit more about that. The costume designer was Robert Kalloch. I don't know if that's how you say his name, K-A-L-L-O-C-H? Someone can correct me out there. He was actually...

Sarah:

"Kall-oak"?

Jojo:

Kalloch...? [both struggle and repeat the name, laughing] Not good at that kind of pronunciation. But he ended up becoming the chief designer for Columbia Pictures. And actually, he was really, really the heyday designer of the 1932 to 1940 period, specifically for screwball comedies, which-- this is considered one. And he also did quite a few projects with Howard Hawks. So "It Happened One Night", he did "The Awful Truth", "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington", and he also did "Only Angels Have Wings" with Howard. So again, a lot of these are much older movies, so if you haven't seen anything prior to like, you know, 2000, then maybe these are some new titles for you. But just know that, you know, these two were really kind of big in their heyday of being in the film industry. And Robert actually went on to be one of the mentors for Adrian, who is well-- very well known for all of his costume designs, pretty much from the 50s on, essentially.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

So I'm going to talk a little bit about the actors themselves, because again, the Age of Hollywood, especially in the 40s, it very much became about who you knew, the celebrities that you recognized. At least from the kind of common people became... I mean, celebrities are still very important for us today. But there's a lot more celebrities all over. So we see musicians as celebrities, we see, you know, advertisers and promoters as celebrities as well. Whereas this time, it was mostly mostly movie, Hollywood filmmakers, or-- sorry, Hollywood actors and stars that became really in the public eye. So this was actually a piece that focuses a lot on the groundbreaking look at women in a man's world and one of the things that made Rosalind so popular for this movie. Interestingly enough, she was actually-- she jokes that she was the 15th choice because Howard went through basically every other person. Irene Dunne, he went through, I think he went through a Berlin Irving, or I don't know, I'm...

Sarah:

Irving Berlin?

Jojo:

I'm making up names now.

Sarah:

Irving Berlin?

Jojo:

No, no, I'm thinking of the wrong name.

Sarah:

Oh.

Jojo:

...because that's not a female.

Sarah:

That's not a lady, no.

Jojo:

[laughs] But he basically went through the entire list of all the other Hollywood female stars at this time. And basically, I think only one of them was actually unavailable. But I'm pretty sure everyone else on his list basically said no to the project. So interestingly enough, when he ended up with Rosalind Russell, he, you know, multiple times told her and she knew that she was not the first choice. So she found out in the public, because I think it ended up in the news that he had gone through all these other people before asking her, so. What a weird way to walk into a project, knowing that you're not first choice, but she totally ran with this. She ended up actually-- because the dialogue is so snappy in this in this particular film, because it's about reporters, she actually ended up hiring... I can't remember who it said she hired. She hired someone to basically help kind of clean up the dialogue and help them make it faster and make it really-- paced really well. So because of that, Cary Grant actually ended up becoming really good friends with her while they were filming together and ended up asking for his own personal training with the same coach, basically.

Sarah:

cool. It's almost like a script supervisor, but like, your own personal one.

Jojo:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So again, she really brought a lot to this project. And like, you know, didn't get discouraged by the fact that she wasn't first choice, she just totally jumped right in, and just really gave it 110%, which I really love. And that's very much like her character in the movie as well. So again, she is, you know, the most powerful female in this in this giant room of mostly male actors. And she really carries her own very well. And even in the, you know-- there's small scenes where you could argue that there's some sexism going on, and all of that. But she really holds her own gravitas very well throughout this movie. And I think that they did a really good job of not just making her this kind of meek female that's surrounded by all these other male reporters. She certainly knows how to stand on her own, she's very independent. And they actually do contrast her with another character who is a little bit more seen as weak and naive and more feminine, kind of drawn to her own emotions and overwhelmed by her own emotions. So seeing that in comparison to how she portrays Hildy, who is our main character, you really see a lot of that contrast. And they did that really well. And again, this is in the 1940s, when most women weren't really in what they call a professional environment. You know, they're the professions that were kind of given to women at this time, were either secretaries, teachers, in education, or in the nursing departments. And there's nothing bad about any of these departments. But it was a very limited place for the woman in the work field. And so having her in this role as a reporter really made her stand out against everyone else. So the fact that she made such a huge impression on on women everywhere after this movie, I think it just goes to show how much power she had, even though she wasn't first choice. And how much she made a positive out of this kind of negative start, for lack of a better term.

Sarah:

Well, I mean, on "Drag Race" last week, Anne Hathaway was on and she said she was the eighth choice for "The Devil Wears Prada". So I think you just kind of have to look at it as like, "well, it was meant to be," you know, "none of those other people were right for it, but I am. So I need to take advantage of the fact that I'm here and they're not."

Jojo:

Right, right. Instead of looking at all the negative...

Sarah:

yeah.

Jojo:

... that comes with that. Yeah. Okay, so let me go ahead and share my screen. Alright, so I am gonna pretty much go in order with this movie, there aren't going to be as many costume looks for this particular episode. But a lot of it was because most of this happens, within a span of less than 24 hours. Right? So...

Sarah:

both of our movies do, which is so funny that we picked-- we both picked some, that are like that.

Jojo:

[laughs] Yeah, it's crazy though, 'cause in the-- you know, in this time, you're not really looking at years and years of time. A lot of times you are focusing in on a moment in time, or a span of 24 hours, or even a couple hours. So it's kind of crazy when you're watching the movie because you're not thinking about how little time has passed because it just seems like so much is happening.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

And then you're like, "Wait, it's only been 24 hours." [both laugh] So yes, I do love that. So just to give you a little bit of background on the story, and again, there are spoilers. But Rosalind and Cary Grant play Hildy, who's the wife and-- or, ex wife. And Cary Grant plays Walter, and Walter basically runs his own newspaper company. He's really like-- he's always been a reporter that's always after the story. And the opening credits actually start with this whole quote about how, you know, when you're a reporter, it's all about the story. Nothing else matters, to the point where it goes to extremes, like murder, and all these other things in order to get the story. And it's very much kind of the presence of what this story is about. So Walter owns this company. Hildy used to work for the company. But they've since gotten divorced. It's been probably a couple months now since they've gotten divorced. And she's the one who actually asked for the divorce. And her argument in the beginning, or her justification was that Cary basically-- or, I should say Walter. I keep saying Cary, because that's the actor.

Sarah:

'Cause it's Cary Grant, yeah.

Jojo:

Yeah, everyone knows who Cary Grant is. [laughs] But she ends up asking him for a divorce because she believes that he's basically too tied to his work. So he hasn't paid enough attention to her as a woman, he hasn't taken the time to appreciate her and really show her what a husband doting on his wife should look like. And again, you don't really see that change for Cary Grant the entire movie, because I mean, even at the end, I don't think that he necessarily suddenly turns into this doting husband. But you know that because he's not the one who asked for the divorce, he still is very much in love with her. And so the movie is very much about his kind of sneaking around and trying to manipulate the situation so that he can try and win her back. And of course, all of that comes at the cost of a story that they end up breaking onto.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

So the first scene, when she comes into the office, is actually when she's trying to tell Walter that she is about to get engaged to another man. So she has been dating someone else since they've gotten divorced. She's fallen in love with this man and you meet him. But you don't really know that he's the engagee until she goes into the office and talks about this engagement ring. And she's covered her hands with gloves, so you don't even see that she's actually coming in for this purpose. So the movie really just starts you right in the middle of it. But the first thing that you see her in is this beautiful chevron two-piece suit with matching hat.

Sarah:

Incredible.

Jojo:

I love that the designer has really created such a huge contrast, not just with her and the stripes on her, and like-- the black versus the kind of lighter color. Interestingly enough, they said that the actual garment is supposed to be black and pink, which... it's so funny that this is how it's reading to us, because we always see black and white, or gray. But to know that this is a pink suit gives us a whole different, you know, understanding of this garment. But the opening scene, she walks through the first kind of row of all these other reporters and she's the only thing that stands out. And part of the reason they're able to do that so successfully is because Robert Kalloch, I'm gonna say that name wrong every time, Robert Kalloch ends up keeping everyone else around her in these pretty solid colors, or they're really subtle patterns, if there are any. And because she's the only thing that's got any kind of a vertical--or even pattern--on her body, she's the only thing that you see in the room against everyone else that's in these kind of solid versions, or hues and tones, of gray. Let's see, I think-- I do love also that he has put a lot of the women in these scenes in very powerful colors, because there's only... I think there's maybe one or two other women that she passes in the office. And you can tell one of the other women, who may also be a reporter? You never really see her again after this first scene. But she's also in this really dark black.

Sarah:

Oh.

Jojo:

So that's not her, that's actually the assistant, but you can tell even the assistant is in this more subdued gray behind her really vibrant stripe. Uhhh... nope, I guess I didn't grab it. Well, anyways, she's in essentially a-- what looks like a black two-piece skirt suit. So again, she's one of the ones that kind of stands out against everybody else. But it's really-- in that scene, it's just Hildy and this other woman in this black two-piece suit. So really making our women very strong in this world of kind of... for lack of a better term, hazy looking colors for all the other men. So that way, they really stand out a lot more. So this was something that I wrote just for my own interpretation of this suit. Obviously, I think it's a beautiful stripe. During this time. They also mentioned that because they had to ration everything, since it was entering into World War Two. Robert ended up, you know, kind of changing the direction of the stripes in order to save every piece or scrap of fabric.

Sarah:

Oh!

Jojo:

So you see that not just in the lapels on this, but you also see that in her second suit that she changes into later, to travel. But one of the things I really loved is that, for me, I feel like the stripes in the vertical lines in both of her outfits--so not just in this one, but in the second look that we'll look at--it shows a very tight laced woman, you know, she obviously has to be extremely strong and like hold her own, in a world full of men who are constantly trying to talk over her. And that's a big part of this movie, too, is that every character is constantly talking on top of everyone else, but you really focus in on her verbal language and communication with her ex husband. And you focus on that not just because of their dialogue, but also because I think we see, and focus, on her in the image because of her stripe, too.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

So even though she does a lot of sarcastic joking with Walter, and I feel like she's constantly-- she kind of keeps up with his sarcasm really well. But I think, you know... that femininity comes from the fact that she wants to be loved as a wife, and she wants to be treated as a woman. But I think with the stripes, it definitely gives her that more masculine kind of authority or power that she has in the room. And it certainly makes us, the viewers, focus in on her her power a little bit more.

Sarah:

Mmhmm. Totally.

Jojo:

Moving on. So, Walter's first suit. So in contrast to her dark and kind of bold lines, you see Walter in this really kind of pale and subdued... it almost looks like linen? Or... I'm not sure exactly what the material is. But he-- in this particular scene, he's also the only person in this kind of double breasted suit.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

So that also is another way to sort of stand them out, especially with the limited color, by changing up the silhouette of the jacket and looking at the way the lapels cross. He also-- you do see other reporters and double breasted jackets later, but he's the only one that kind of remains in this lighter hue. So I love that they've definitely kept that to his look the entire time. Again, this is all within 24 hours. So this is literally the outfit he stays in the entire day. [both laugh] So I was like, "great, nice and easy, one and done." I do also love that if you look closer, which... you can't see it as much here. He actually does have a pretty subtle, almost like windowpane, plaid.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

And again, you don't notice that until you're looking up close and personal, and it's after you're staring at the jacket for, you know, a couple minutes before you notice it. So you don't see it when she first comes in. But that initial contrast of the really light suit versus her really dark stripe is just a really nice way of looking at their characters too. Because I think the light heartedness of his character is very much reflected in how vibrant--or, I say "vibrant," but, you know--how light his suit jacket is.

Sarah:

[laughs] Yeah.

Jojo:

Because even when we see him later with Bruce, who's the engagee, there's this really nice kind of play of different tones of gray. So you see the dark is with Hildy, and the almost black is with Hildy. And then you see the kind of medium tone with Bruce, and then Cary Grant is in the the lightest tone of gray.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

When we first meet Bruce--again, just looking at the kind of difference in silhouette--you can immediately tell that Cary Grant is our very sharp sleek business man. And he's always in these very straight vertical lines. His suit is very cut. And it's tailored very nicely, and it's much more vertical and slim fitting. Whereas with Bruce, the first time we see him he's in a trench coat. It's almost a little baggy on him, we don't really see the shape underneath. And it also gives him a much more casual, and a little bit of a naive, vibe. And I think he definitely has that throughout the movie. We certainly see him as like-- it almost looks like his mother has kind of dressed him? Like, he's got a nice suit, but it's not quite the same fit. He doesn't take care of himself in the same way that Cary Grant does.

Sarah:

Right.

Jojo:

And even the way that Hildy does. And I think both of them are very Metropolitan in comparison. So yet another comparison of the two of them... this is not the best example of the light versus dark because you don't really see his gray suit yet. But again, just that idea of the the trench coat being kind of oversized on him versus Cary Grant's more tailored jacket.

Sarah:

Oh, wow.

Jojo:

So then, halfway through the day, basically, Hildy ends up telling Walter that she's heading down to Albany with Bruce later that day, like within a few hours' time. And they're basically going down to Albany to get engaged--or, sorry--to get married, and they're bringing his mother with him. So she's trying to plan this train ride to go down to Albany and get married, and get hitched. And of course Walter, you know immediately that everything is kind of working in his brain to try and prevent this from happening. He's trying to get the train schedule changed. Like, he literally is calling people to be like, "Can we stop the train from happening?" Which... it's kind of crazy that he's got that kind of power. But literally doing everything in his power to try and stop her from getting married to this other guy. So of course, the biggest part of this is that there's this big scoop that's happening that all the reporters are trying to get on top of. So the side story, and all of this, is that there's this man, Earl Williams, who has been... I can't remember the exact situation because it was very late at night last night. [laughs] But he basically ends up shooting someone that was unintentional. And of course, his argument is that he didn't do it on purpose. I believe it was a police officer that he ended up shooting, but he didn't do it on purpose. He thinks he's in jail innocently, and all of this other stuff. So all of the reporters are trying to find out what actually happened, why he's claiming himself innocent. He happened to also be talking to a woman, I think they had one conversation. But then the news reporters--and you'll see this a couple times in this movie--you know, the news reporters are all about writing his story. So whether it's true or not, you'll see a lot of them actually make up facts, or they'll over exaggerate what's actually happening. So there's a lot of, you know, false news out there. Which ironically, today that's very applicable. [both laugh]

Sarah:

Buzz word!

Jojo:

...and very, you know, kind of what's happening. So again, this idea that all of them are trying to get the real news out there versus the fake news. And so this huge story kind of falls into their lap. And so, Cary Grant's character knows this. And so he kind of brings it up on a whim, hoping that it'll basically get Hildy convinced to kind of come back and work for him instead of going and getting married. And he knows her well enough to know that that's probably what she'll end up doing. So she keeps getting stalled and stopped. And everything keeps going wrong. Like she-- you know, every time she tries to meet up with Bruce, or every time she tries to get him on the train, something else happens. So there's all these... it's like a series of different things that Cary has basically manipulated to get Bruce in trouble and prevent them from going down to Albany. So this is her in the news reporter room, and you see her with all the other news reporters here. And even though their colors are very similar, just the fact-- again, that she's got the most prominent stripe going on with her two-piece skirt suit. And again, this is another place where they talked about Robert really recycling the direction of the fabric so that he could still reuse essentially every leftover scrap of what they had to make this suit. And it's just so tailored, very well to her body.

Sarah:

Mmhmm!

Jojo:

It fits her beautifully. And again, it just gives her a lot of power in this scene, especially with all the other reporters in the room. I think the only one that really has any kind of texture is this more... dumpy looking character, for lack of a better term. [laughs] And he's kind of like... they're all a little bit goofy. And I think they're all a little bit cutthroat, but not necessarily in a bad way. They're just all trying to scoop the story.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

And it's funny, because you'll see all of them appear in and out of the room trying to get the newest scoop. And so they'll all just update stories, and a lot of them are made up, you'll hear them saying things that are totally in contrast with what's actually happened. And they'll just say some random statement to put in the, you know, the front line of their newspaper. So yeah, it's an interesting look at just how false news can travel so easily, and how it can easily be misinterpreted or just mis-told. And of course, Hildy is the one that's trying to honor the original story. So she actually befriends Earl Williams, she goes and talks to him. And again, very much pointing to the fact that as an independent woman in a man's world, she is really the go-getter, she takes a lot of initiative, she knows how to get the right scoop, she knows how to go to the right people to get the story that she needs.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

Okay, so... one of the things-- we do see her in that pinstripe suit for a good chunk of this scene when she's with the other reporters. But when she first appears, we actually see her in this beautiful fur coat. And again, this is just... again, continuing to show all the different ways in which we have to find other venues, or means, of being able to differentiate characters. And he certainly-- Robert has certainly done that really well, with even just making her the center of focus, because she's totally got a very different texture than everyone else around her. And it's also a much lighter color. So she's the first thing we see in the room. And I think they mentioned this with the movie as well, but she's always kind of the center of attention here. So it's never-- you never lose her on screen. Let's just say that.

Sarah:

Right.

Jojo:

Okay, so this is another example of the contrast between Cary and Bruce. And you can see here Bruce's darker suit, which if you look really carefully, he does actually have a really subtle pinstripe in there. But when you first look at him, and you see the three of them eating lunch together, you can see the very clear contrast of color. So Cary is actually-- he normally would have his blazer on. But in this particular scene, this is when they're talking about Hildy. And it's interesting, because Bruce is talking very romantically about Hildy in this scene, but Cary Grant is trying to basically throw him off the scent by saying like, "Oh, yeah, Hildy, she does all these horrible things. You don't want her to, you know, she's gonna just fight you back." And like, basically trying to put a bad light on her. So that Bruce will always see that negative. And, of course, it's his sneaky way of trying to get Bruce away from her and get her back for himself, of course. But we see this scene where he's got his jacket off, and... how do we make someone in this period look sexy? And in this case, it's almost like different levels of undressed versus dressed.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

And so whereas... the conservative look of Bruce in this fully suited, you know, blazer and vest and pants. And then we see Cary Grant here, who's still doing up his tie, and buttoning up his shirt, and kind of leaving a little bit more of the exposed neck. And then seeing a little bit of his body form through his shirt, without the jacket on. And of course, he eventually puts the jacket on, and even then it's much more clean cut. But just seeing that kind of level of like, "Okay, I have my kind of casual... my jacket's off," and then putting it back on to kind of get himself back together.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

So then I just wanted to show you a quick contrast of looking at textures on the screen. Because again, it's not just about... especially in a black and white movie, it's not just about what your costume looks like on the actor. You also have to look at, how are they up against the background and up against the other characters? So this was a good example of just-- she's obviously got this dark color, but it's enough of a block in the image that you still see her as the main prominent person in the photo. Or sorry, in the screenshot. And yet, you still have all these really dynamic lines in the background. And then this is Earl Williams, who she's questioning. And just trying to kind of befriend, so that they can get along, and that she can hopefully coax the real story out of him. So this was one of the other females that I wanted to focus on. And again, she doesn't appear for very long, and then--spoiler--she actually commits suicide eventually. Because she is... so this is Molly. Molly Malloy, I think is her name, let me check my notes. Yes, Molly Malloy. So she's kind of the representative of the overemotional female. She's very, very easily stressed out, easily anxious. She talks to Earl Williams once because, you know, he just he's very depressed. And he needs someone to listen. And so after that happens, of course, all the news reporters run this whole story about how they're lovers and how she is keeping a secret for him. And she's gonna bust him out of jail, and all this other stuff. And of course, she ends up being the butt of all of these lies. And so she gets understandably very stressed from all of this "fake news." And so she comes in and tries to just defend herself and explain herself. But I love that they've sort of contrasted her with with Hildy, because Hildy is such a strong image and presence in the scene. And then you see her come in with these very... I mean, again, nothing wrong with being feminine, but there's a much more softness to her look. In terms of just even the curls that she's got in her hair, the flowers that she's got. Especially the frilled kind of collar that she has, and then just little puff sleeves that she's got, and the fact that this is almost slightly transparent, even.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

It tells a lot about how waif-like she is as a character. And she is very... blown back and forth by the breeze, and by all the reporters in this very man's world, so it was a good way to sort of showcase what other women at this time were experiencing in comparison to this very strong character of Hildy.

Sarah:

Well, and it's-- it's always interesting. I mean... this is a very "old movie, not very 21st century way" of portraying women on screen, or in any media...

Jojo:

Right.

Sarah:

...it's that... making one woman strong by making the other one look weak.

Jojo:

Right.

Sarah:

So that the strong one looks stronger by comparison. And she's very "not like the other girls," you know, she can hang with the men. So that's kind of tough to see. But it's very much... it's very much changing. So that's good.

Jojo:

Yeah, yeah. And it shows you how far we've come, too, as women.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

So... but yeah, I just thought that was interesting, that they played such a... because there are other females in this movie, like I said, but you only see them for two seconds. And the one other really strong woman in black was at the very beginning, and then we never see her again. So the fact that they had this person, you know, as a contrast was was interesting. It certainly made you emphasize and respect Hildy a lot in that scene. So this was just another example of the different ways in which we can contrast different fabrics. I wanted to show just, you know, all the multiple ways we can even put black onto a screen. Like, this is not just a straight black, because obviously they would read as the same color. But the fact that you see a difference between this black and the gray stripe versus this black and a black pinstripe.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

And then even the difference in the two suits between the two gentlemen. we have this character Pettibone, who... he's totally just kind of the floppy character. And he's kind of our comic relief in this particular scene.

He's the clown.

Yeah, he's definitely our clown character. And he comes in... trying to remember what I wrote in my notes. Let's see, I wrote that he basically-- the three-piece suit gives him this sort of stuffy feeling, but then it's almost like it's suffocating and burdening him, because he comes in sort of all over the place and a little bit chaotic. And then even just the way that his hair is kind of askew. And then he's got the bowler hat, which is also-- it's not a comical hat. But I think in this scene, because everyone else is in these really sharp fedoras, just seeing him in the bowler gives him a very specific character. So I think the costume designer did that really well. But even being able to see the difference in the suit jackets, not just size wise, but pattern wise, and just being able to fine tune those little details in black and white. I think that was my last one!

Sarah:

Okay!

Jojo:

I might have put them out of order a little bit. But yes, so again, not a lot of different costumes. But you can see how subtle the costume designer was, with really making sure the emphasis was on the people he needed it to be on.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

And even the characters that were more similar in silhouette or color, they didn't appear for very long. So you never saw them on screen for very long together, if that makes any sense.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

But yeah, you-- I mean, you absolutely know that Rosalind is the center of attention in this movie.

Sarah:

Those stripes really tell you.

Jojo:

In every scene she's always the one that you focus on as the viewer.

Sarah:

Yeah. Completely. Such an interesting challenge, like to try to differentiate your lead from everybody else when you don't have color!

Jojo:

It's true. And I was actually thinking about that, because, you know... how often do we really do projects where you're only limited to black and white? I don't think I've ever even done that.

Sarah:

I haven't either.

Jojo:

So I was like, "Huh." I haven't really thought about how I would have to see color and what it reads like in black and white, versus me seeing it in color in front of me. [laughs] And trying to process. What does that look like? If I only have black and white as my color palette?

Sarah:

You would have to be constantly doing camera tests, like taking pictures and desaturating them to make sure that it looks how you think it's gonna look.

Jojo:

It's true. Well, and the thing that's interesting about this, too, is that... like I mentioned before, her first chevron suit, it's not actually black and white.

Sarah:

Right.

Jojo:

Like, it's black and pink. So how does pink read on a black and white camera versus seeing black and white on a stage? Because I've designed shows where they wanted the color palette to be black, white, and red or something like that. But it's like-- that's a very different-- you're making very different choices, as opposed to when the whole entire screen filter is black and white. And it's not just the clothing that's black and white, but it's also that the actor has to look, you know, filtered through black and white. So very different challenges to face.

Sarah:

Yeah, totally. And it's... back then they didn't really preserve stuff as much as they do now.

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

So if we have stuff that's been preserved, it's not in great condition. So I wish that we could know what color things were originally, and I'm going to talk about that a little in mine, actually...

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

...because there are a couple things that I don't know what color they were.

Jojo:

Right.

Sarah:

So it's... I wish we could see, so that we could contrast that with what it looks like on the screen. But we can't because...

Jojo:

I know, I do wish that was one thing that I found more information about. I just didn't find a lot of information about the original colors of these. So it's like-- I mean, other than the... and even the black and pink, it was like, it's supposed to be black and pink. Like, they don't actually know.

Sarah:

But WAS it, yeah.

Jojo:

So like, who knows what color it was in real life?

Sarah:

Well, and everybody who worked on it has passed away so we can't ask them. [both laugh]

Jojo:

Yeah, exactly.

Sarah:

Well, great job.

Jojo:

[as if to people who have passed away] Tell me!

Sarah:

Great job. I need to rewatch that movie.

Jojo:

Thanks, Sarah!

Sarah:

...that movie's so fun.

Jojo:

Yeah, it's definitely fun, and it's free on Amazon Prime. So... that was nice.

Sarah:

Nice! Nice.

Jojo:

Woo-hoo, I'm so excited about this movie.

Sarah:

Yay! I was-- it was really nice to watch this again. So my movie is "Roman Holiday". One of my faves. The great Audrey Hepburn, directed by William Wyler, it came out in 1953. And the costumes are by none other than Edith Head.

Jojo:

Ah!

Sarah:

Who is... I'm so excited to have the opportunity to talk about her, because she truly is the most famous costume designer of all time, I think. And probably the first famous costume designer.

Jojo:

I know, I'm surprised we haven't covered her sooner.

Sarah:

Well, I mean...

Jojo:

But I guess we haven't talked about a lot of old movies.

Sarah:

Her career was very long.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

But she stopped working in the 70s. So we haven't really covered anything past the 80s....

Jojo:

That's true.

Sarah:

...yet. So I'm excited about it. She worked, like I said, for decades. She was nominated for 35 Oscars, the-- obviously, the most of anybody, any costume designer. And then she won eight, which is so many Oscars.

Jojo:

Yeah, it's crazy.

Sarah:

She is one of only two costume designers to have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. And the other one is Ruth E. Carter, who designed "Black Panther". And she just got her star last month! So until last month, Edith Head was the only costume designer on there.

Jojo:

That's fantastic.

Sarah:

I know.

Jojo:

That's so crazy to me, though.

Sarah:

We need to get more costume designers on there!

Jojo:

I mean, awesome that, you know, the second person is a woman of color too!

Sarah:

Yes, yes.

Jojo:

But like, that's crazy.

I know. I read that, and I was like, "really?" [both laugh]

That's depressing!

Sarah:

No Colleen Atwood? No Sandy Powell? No... come on. No Eiko? I mean, come on!

Jojo:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially, after she's passed.

Sarah:

I know!

Jojo:

I just feel like that should be, like, an honorable thing.

Sarah:

I know, I don't know what qualifies you. Like, do you have to get nominated to do it? I don't know. I'll nominate... people.

Jojo:

Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. Question for one of our listeners out there. Someone tell us. [both laugh]

Sarah:

Yeah! So this movie did win the Oscar for Best Costume Design in the black and white category.

Jojo:

Ooooh.

Sarah:

So I learned this: until 1967, there were two different costume design Oscars, one for color, and one for black and white.

Jojo:

Nice!

Sarah:

The categories first started in 1949. Most of the Academy Awards for Best Costume Design in black and white were given to contemporary movies. Because the movies that were being shot in Technicolor were really big, bombastic musicals, fantasies, stuff like that. So... it's so interesting that since they got rid of the black and white category, pretty much all of the winners for Best Costume Design are fantasy, sci-fi, you know, some setting other than contemporary.

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And that's how it's been since then. And like, only three movies that are contemporary have won since they got rid of the black and white category. So I just thought that was really interesting.

Jojo:

Mmm.

Sarah:

Edith also won Oscars for "Sabrina," "All About Eve," she also designed movies like "Funny Face," "White Christmas," one of my personal favorites.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

"To Catch a Thief". So, she's really behind a lot of the iconic looks of her time. She's-- also, Edna Mode from "The Incredibles" is based on her. [both laugh]

Jojo:

I know! I love it so much.

Sarah:

Her iconic little round glasses, which were often dark, and it was said that she wore the dark glasses so that people couldn't see her eyes in meetings. So they couldn't really know what she was thinking, which I love!

Jojo:

That's so smart, I need to start doing that. [laughs]

Sarah:

I know! Just wear sunglasses as a power move, to a meeting.

Jojo:

It's true. My problem is I smile too much, because... so even if you didn't see my face, I feel like you just read it in my mouth. [both laugh]

Sarah:

That's funny. So yeah, that's a little background on Edith. The setting for this movie is 1950s Rome, Italy. The typical silhouette of the 50s is based kind of on... it kind of started with Christian Dior's New Look in 1947, which I think we've touched on a little bit. But the New Look was revolutionary at the time because it was such a deviation from the silhouettes of the previous decade of the 40s. Because like we said, in the 40s there were a lot of fabric restrictions and rationing happening. So the silhouettes were really streamlined, not very showy at all, very utilitarian, sometimes military inspired, even, because of the war.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

So the New Look kind of exploded onto the scene as... quite literally, a very new look that people were not used to seeing. It's characterized by small waist and an hourglass silhouette, which emphasizes the feminine features of a woman's body: a full bust, full hips, small waist. And it uses a lot of fabric in the skirts especially. So it's-- it's a very joyful thing to have happen after so many years of being restricted, not being able to use as much fabric as you would like to use.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

So that's a little background on the 50s. So let's talk about Audrey Hepburn's character, Princess Ann. So in this movie she's she's basically this princess, and she's on sort of like a European tour. I don't know what country she's supposed to be from, didn't really look into it. [both laugh] I don't know if they ever say.

Jojo:

i know, I was like, “i don't know if I remember either.” It's been so long since i've seen the movie.

Sarah:

She has sort of a non-regional British sounding accent. But she's basically on this tour, and she feels very restricted by all the rules she has to follow. All the public appearances she has to make where she has to be polite and shake hands with people, and just be a perfect princess. And she's really struggling with feeling restricted by her life, which is kind of where we join her in the— at the beginning of the movie. So this is the beginning, she's at a ball where she's meeting all these dignitaries and stuff. So… she's beautiful, obviously. [laughs] She’s Audrey Hepburn. One of the most beautiful women of all time.

Jojo:

Oh, yeah. I just love Audrey Hepburn. Like, timeless. It's like Edith Head, she just lives on forever-ever in your memory.

Sarah:

Forever. Legend. And also just a really good person? Like, she was a real philanthropist.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

she was cool.

Jojo:

yeah, everything about her life was… I don't know, it's just so—

Sarah:

she seems rad.

Jojo:

…respectable.

Sarah:

yeah!

Jojo:

that's not enough of a good word to describe it, but you know what I mean. [laughs]

Sarah:

yeah just like… the embodiment of grace and goodness, in my opinion.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

so this is her gown that she's wearing. Very 50s silhouette, although the fullness starts at the hip instead of at the waist, which is… I mean, it was pretty typical of the time.

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

beautiful off-the-shoulder gown. It's got beading on. And apparently in real life, it was sort of silver? I saw a picture of it on display somewhere, and it has really yellowed. So I didn't pull that because I was like, “well, that's not actually what color it was. We don't need to look at that.”

Jojo:

[laughs] It’s not gold.

Sarah:

So yeah, is this…? Here's a full length. And apparently…

Jojo:

Oh, it’s so beautiful!

Sarah:

Yeah, it's it's really iconic. I love the sash, you know? It's sort of like a royal… sash on it. With some metal-looking…

Jojo:

It makes me think very Anastasia.

Sarah:

Yeah!

Jojo:

Even though I don't know if that's actually the country she's from.

Sarah:

Who knows? I sure don’t.

Jojo:

But that sash makes me think of Russian. [laughs]

Sarah:

Yeah. Apparently in her screen test, the people—maybe the director—was worried that it was too long. But Audrey was an accomplished dancer. They were like, “can you dance in it?” And she was like, “oh I can DANCE in it.” [laughs] Like, “WATCH me dance. Don't worry about it.”

Jojo:

Oh, again, just… good at everything!

Sarah:

And then she's got beautiful, you know, jewels on. Tiara. Just…she looks like a perfect princess. I love her hair, it's sort of like a crown of braids, beautiful. And then…

Jojo:

Ooh, yeah.

Sarah:

Yeah. This is kind of… i'll brighten this picture up when I put it on Instagram, it's a little bit dark.

Jojo:

Mmhmm..

Sarah:

And then this is a fun little shot, because during the scene her feet really hurt. So she starts to shift her weight and take her shoes off and kind of stretch her feet out. And so you get this nice shot of what the underneath of her dress might look like. And I don't know if this is what it actually looked like, or if it’s… it's probably some sort of thing they made just to shoot this.

Jojo:

Like, doctored up.

Sarah:

Yeah, like a half a petticoat, crinoline thing. But I thought it was really fun, this little peek underneath the dress.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

Oh and here's the rendering. Beautiful.

Jojo:

Ooh.

Sarah:

Edith Head made beautiful renderings. I don't think she ever really knew how to sew herself, but a lot of designers don’t.

Jojo:

Yeah, I think there's a lot of articles about that.

Sarah:

Yeah. That's okay. I mean, it helps but you don't have to. [laughs] Clearly.

Jojo:

There's a lot of designers, actually, that don't know how to sew.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

I would say more than… more than not.

Sarah:

Yeah, it's interesting that the sash is red in this picture. I wonder if it was red in real life. Probably.

Jojo:

Yeah, it's so interesting to me too, when you're rendering for a black and white movie do you render it in black and white?

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

Or do you… you know what I mean? Because you're not… you're never going to ever see that as red in the picture. So it just makes me wonder, where do you make that decision to… do I just do this in the black and white that I want to see? Or do I do it in the color I think is going to read as this shade of gray?

Sarah:

I think she she rendered in color.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

I didn't find any other renderings from this movie, but I have a big coffee table book that I was looking at, and it seems like all of her renderings were in color no matter what the movie…

Jojo:

Mmhmm. Yeah.

Sarah:

If it was or wasn’t.

Jojo:

Oh, okay.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

Oh, so beautiful.

Sarah:

So next we have her nightgown, and this is when she's in her bedroom talking about how much she's tired of her life, and she kind of goes into hysterics. And they end up drugging her with a sedative so that she can sleep, which is… makes me sad.

Jojo:

[laughs] Yikes.

Sarah:

Yeah. So this… it's definitely period, but it looks kind of young. It looks like childlike and very prim, and I think that that just tells us more about how she's kind of being restricted. She's not allowed to… she's not being permitted to be a normal young woman. She's kind of being held back and kept in this life that she doesn't necessarily… it's not that she doesn't want it. It's just that she's feeling like she needs to escape for a while. And I love this, this is her… I called her in my notes her “handler.” But I think she's a countess of some kind.

Jojo:

Her handler. [both laugh]

Sarah:

Yeah, she's just going over her schedule.

Jojo:

I do love that.

Sarah:

I was like, I don't know. She's in charge. I like her gown, it looks… I don't know what fabric this is.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

It could be some sort of faille, where it's got the little tiny ribbing on it.

Jojo:

Oh, yeah.

Sarah:

Or, is there one called moire or something, that has sort of like a…

Jojo:

Moire? Yeah.

Sarah:

It makes sort of shiny patterns? Yeah. I like it a lot, I think it's really cool.

Jojo:

It's beautiful.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

It's funny, because like, her… if you just looked at her head and her face, she does actually look a little bit like Edith Head.

Sarah:

[laughs] Yeah, the glasses too!

Jojo:

Uh-huh!

Sarah:

That's funny, that's very funny. So then, she sneaks out of the palace while under the influence of a sedative. [both laugh] Hijinks ensue. And so this is the outfit that she puts on to escape, and I think she… the sedative doesn't kick in until she's on the back of a truck, escaping.

Jojo:

Oh, jeez. [both laugh]

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

Moving vehicle and sedative do not go together!

Sarah:

Honestly yeah, she's lucky she didn't get kidnapped and die. [both laugh] But this is… so, this is the outfit she puts on that she basically, she wears for a lot of the… most of the movie, in the middle. But it goes through kind of a transformation as her day goes on. So it starts very buttoned up, she's got sort of a little tie at the top. You can see her teeny, teeny waist.

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And maybe I'll talk now about… I read some stuff in my Edith Head book about Audrey, and I don't want to make a habit of commenting on actors’ bodies. But this relates to the costume design, so that's why I'm going to talk about it.

Jojo:

Okay.

Sarah:

So anybody who's sensitive to that kind of discussion might need to skip ahead a little bit. So she suffered from—Audrey—suffered from malnutrition during World War II. She's Belgian. And she was very thin, which was not really the ideal body type of the 50s. Obviously, they were all thin, but they… like I said, the ideal was sort of a full bosom and full hips, hourglass silhouette.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

And so Edith talked a lot about like wanting to de-emphasize Audrey's thinness, so that's why she has sort of a long-sleeve shirt. She said her collarbones stuck out a lot, so she tried to cover those, and then she put her in full skirts. Like, no form-fitting skirts, because her hips were so slim.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

And then she had really muscular legs because she was a dancer.

Jojo:

Right.

Sarah:

And they were probably sinewy, you know? Like, thin and muscular. so she doesn't wear anything shorter than a midi length.

Jojo:

Mmm.

Sarah:

So that was… that kind of influenced Edith’s choices when she clothed Audrey. And then just another tidbit is that her waist was 19 1/2 inches.

Jojo:

Oh my gosh! That's crazy!

Sarah:

That's teeny tiny.

Jojo:

That's like, half of a lot of people's busts that I know. That's like, only measuring from underarm to underarm.

Sarah:

She was a petite lady.

Jojo:

That’s insane. So crazy.

Sarah:

Yeah. Very, very little.

Jojo:

So was she… well, and I don't want to spend too much time talking about this. But was she intentionally malnutritioned, or was it just something from when she was born, that she just didn't get enough?

Sarah:

Oh no, I think it was during the war,

Jojo:

Oh, okay.

Sarah:

A lot of a lot of people in the war did not have access to food.

Jojo:

Got it, got it.

Sarah:

So people went hungry during a lot of the war. I don't know specifically about Belgium during World War II, but a lot of the countries… I don't know if they were invaded, but if the Nazis came in… like, they took all their resources.

Jojo:

Well, and Belgium was known for being constantly overtaken by multiple countries.

Sarah:

That's what I thought, I read that in a book.

Jojo:

It was right in… it was that tiny one in the middle of everything, so every country was invading Belgium.

Sarah:

Yeah. So it’s… if she was sort of… she was probably a teenager during that time. Or a child?

Jojo:

Oh, that’s true, that’s true. That makes sense, then.

Sarah:

Yeah, if she wasn't getting food during the time when she was supposed to be growing and developing, then that's kind of what contributed to how slight she was.

Jojo:

Right, got it.

Sarah:

So yeah, that's it, that's all I want to say about that. Okay, so this skirt. I don't know what color it was in real life, I really wanted to know, just out of curiosity.

Jojo:

[laughs] Yeah.

Sarah:

On the poster that they colorized, they made it blue. But then in some colorized images it's beige-tan.

Jojo:

Okay. I know, I was thinking blue initially, but then I was like, “who knows?” [laughs]

Sarah:

I don't know. And I did a light Google, I didn't do a deep Google of it. So if the information's out there, I couldn't find it.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

Yeah, so this is— she's a princess in disguise, you know, she needs to look kind of normal and blend in. And then here's Gregory Peck in his one outfit that he wears. [both laugh] Just like Cary Grant, he kind of just sticks to… he sticks to a suit. And he's also a journalist in this movie.

Jojo:

Oh!

Sarah:

So he looks a little bit more rumpled, because he's definitely poor. Because, you know, they go back to his flat and it's one room, it's tiny.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

So he's kind of like a penniless American journalist in Rome, but he's still a heartthrob. So he still has to look good. Here's a picture of her, this is from her screen test. But this is kind of what the outfit transforms into? Like, rolls up the sleeves, unbuttons the shirt, puts a scarf on. I tried to figure out where she got the scarf. Could not figure it out. [laughs] Like, in the movie. In the world of the movie.

Jojo:

In the movie, you mean practically speaking? [laughs]

Sarah:

Yeah, so she starts in a pump heel, and then she buys the sandals from a street vendor. I love the sandals.

Jojo:

I do love those.

Sarah:

But the scarf just appears, and it doesn't explain where it came from. [both laugh] That's okay, maybe I just missed it, I don't know.

Jojo:

Oh, that’s funny.

Sarah:

And then she gets her hair cut too! Which is, like… this haircut is so iconic. So cute. Love it.

Jojo:

M. Very Audrey Hepburn.

Sarah:

Like honestly, I would wear this outfit, and there are probably some outfits I have worn that look kind of like this. It's so cute, so timeless.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

And also, apparently they shot during the summer and Rome was very hot. So I think it's also very practical for shooting outside in the summer.

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Here’s another picture, this iconic picture of them on the stairs.

Jojo:

So cute!

Sarah:

Yeah, just adorable, I love it.

Jojo:

I know, this makes me want to go back out and get more blouses again. [both laugh] I’ve run out of a lot of— because we've been stuck in quarantine, I'm just wearing sweaters and sweatpants.

Sarah:

I know. My sweatpants have like, holes in them. Because i've been wearing them for a straight year.

Jojo:

[laughs] That’s how I feel too! I was like. “I've had some of these pants for so long,” and I don't have the money to go out and buy a ton of new clothes. So all of my jeans have now gotten holes at the crotch and the knees and like…

Sarah:

I have powerful thighs, so that’s where it wears out.

Jojo:

…I really shouldn’t be wearing these anymore. [both laugh]

Sarah:

I just patch it. Patch it and move on.

Jojo:

I need to do that. [both laugh] It was recent holes, for the jeans. But yeah, some of my other sweatpants, I was just like, these don't need to be patched. These just need to get given away or thrown away.

Sarah:

My one favorite pair of jeans, I patched. Because I have thighs that rub together, because I got chub rub. And I patched them in the crotch so many times that I finally… like, there's no fabric left to patch, like it— and I still have them! Because I refuse to let go. But I can't wear them anymore. [both laugh]

Jojo:

That’s how I feel with some of my jeans! I was like, “but I love these jeans! They fit so well!”

Sarah:

It's so sad to have to let them go.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

Anyway.

Jojo:

Side note. [both laugh]

Sarah:

Yeah, so you can see a little bit more of her blouse in this shot. I think probably they had multiples of this, obviously, since she wears only this. But if you look at the long sleeve version versus the short sleeve, it doesn't look like THAT much sleeve is rolled up into that much roll.

Jojo:

Yeah, I was gonna say. I was like, “there's no way.” [laughs]

Sarah:

Yeah, so a little, you know… a little bit of movie magic. Switch it out for one that is shorter so that it doesn't look so bulky on the arm. What else did I say… oh yeah, throughout the day you know, as she's sort of going about her day and having fun in Rome, she gets a lot looser and more free. And that's reflected in the in the clothes, of course.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

She doesn’t— I don't think she stands out. I mean, she stands out on screen because she's Audrey Hepburn. But I think the idea is that she blends in because she doesn't want people to recognize her.

Jojo:

Right.

Sarah:

Love the sandals. I need to get some sandals like this.

Jojo:

I know.

Sarah:

…do I have anything else to say about his suit? No, he looks good. It's just… I think it's definitely… it's nice to contrast it to the one that Cary Grant was wearing, because I think it's a lot less sharp than that one was.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

A little more relaxed, you know? Probably summer weight, because it’s hot.

Jojo: Yeah, but still very much of that time period.

Sarah: Yeah.

Jojo:

Kind of, you know, the wider leg is starting to be— I shouldn't say “starting to be,” but it's returning in the 1940s, I think.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

Or, this is 1950…?

Sarah:

’53, yeah.

Jojo:

’53, okay, yeah. So it's actually, yeah, it's getting wider in the 1950s. Because I think it was still pretty slim in the 40s because they were trying to save fabric, so…

Sarah:

Yeah, yeah yeah.

Jojo:

Yeah, tells you a lot about the period, for sure.

Sarah:

And it's fun to, like— it's fun to cover a contemporary movie, but that was contemporary at the time, you know?

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

It’s obviously not contemporary anymore. But it's so interesting to see. They're not trying to do any specific period, they're just doing their time, 1953.

Jojo:

Right, right. What's contemporary at this time is now period for us.

Sarah:

Exactly.

Jojo:

But then, what's contemporary for us will be period, you know, 10 years from now.

Sarah:

Yeah, exactly

Jojo:

So yeah.

Sarah:

Always makes me wonder, what will our decades be characterized by? It's hard to really tell when you're in the middle of it.

Jojo:

Yeah especially since— I mean, we have… we're going through fashion so quickly.

Sarah:

So quickly.

Jojo:

So it's almost it's hard to kind of pinpoint what is characteristic of our generation.

Sarah:

Yep, completely, so interesting. So this is her look at the end, when she's gone back to the palace and she's having a press conference. Because they lied and said that she was really sick, and she's just kind of out saying, “I'm better now and I'm going to continue my tour.” So Edith Head— I watched an interview with her from like, a thousand years ago, that they made about this movie. And she said this is lace, and I was like, “oh yeah I guess it is lace!” Because like I looked at it and I went, “is that organza?” But it's not, it's lace.

Jojo:

[laughs] Yeah.

Sarah:

It's very pretty.

Jojo:

So beautiful.

Sarah:

Back to the, you know, feminine, light, princess-y sort of thing. I love this little hat and how it emphasizes her new hair and her face. So pretty. And the pearls are beautiful too.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

Here's a full body shot of it, the silhouette is just gorge.

Jojo:

Oh my goodness, I can't believe the entire thing is in lace.

Sarah:

I know, so pretty!

Jojo:

So beautiful.

Sarah:

It's so romantic looking, so feminine and demure, but… still just like, “yeah I'm the prettiest in the room. What about it?” You know? [both laugh]

Jojo:

I'm not gonna lie, I love this sleeve, and I think— I mean, we've been working on this for the photo shoot we keep talking about. But that giant kind of like, lantern sleeve is just so… I mean, hers stops at her elbow. But I just I love that look, and it being transparent too, and being able to still see the delicate arm underneath is… I don't know, there's just something really beautiful about that.

Sarah:

I love the sleeve. I love the length of it, I love everything about it.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

And once again, we have the volume starting at the hip instead of starting it right at the waist…

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

…and that just calls more attention to her figure, you know?

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

And then this is her seeing them at the press conference and realizing that they actually know that she— they knew she was the princess all along. Oh no. [laughs] I was gonna talk a little bit— I did this in a weird order. This is his— he changes into this outfit on the second day, and it's more of a tweed blazer. I like it. You know, it’s…

Jojo:

I do, too. I love a tweed blazer.

Sarah:

It changes up the texture. Yeah. I think it's a fun way to be like, well, he's changing his clothes. It doesn't look that different, but it looks different enough that we know that he's changed.

Jojo:

Yeah, I feel like tweed is one of those textures that I always want to like… pet. [laughs]

Sarah:

Yeah!

Jojo:

Like, you can feel it even when you see it on screen. You know it's tweed, but you also— I feel like I get a tactile texture when I think of tweed, or when I see tweed.

Sarah:

It's also delightful to work with, because it's often very loosely woven and woolly. And things that are that way are really easy to manipulate and make them do what you want them to do.

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

So anybody who's ever made something out of tweed is like, “oh yeah. Piece of cake.” [both laugh] It just does what you want it to do, you don't have to even argue with it.

Jojo:

It's like the little slubby texture I love.

Sarah:

Right. So this is Irving, he's sort of our sidekick-y guy. He's constantly getting things spilled on and getting tripped, and it makes me feel very bad for him because he's nobody ever really apologizes about it. [both laugh]

Jojo:

Oh, no.

Sarah:

It's just like, he keeps trying to spill the beans. And Gregory Peck's character keeps stopping him from spilling the beans by pouring water on him, or tripping him at the restaurant, and it makes me sad.

Jojo:

Poor guy!

Sarah:

But I really like his outfit. It's a nice like sort of wide neck t-shirt with a high-waisted pant, and then sort of a jacket. And I like how casual he is compared to Joe… which is Gregory Peck's character's name that I haven't used until just now. [both laugh]

Jojo:

It’s okay, I kept using “Cary,” so…

Sarah:

So yeah, he's just like… he's just more casual, and I like the sort of other example of “1950s guy” clothes. Because it's a very tight t-shirt, it shows his chest very nicely.

Jojo:

It's funny because he actually looks very contemporary.

Sarah:

Yeah!

Jojo:

Because this fashion trend is kind of returning for menswear. So I just— it's like, we look at this even though it's from over 50 years ago, and it still looks like, “oh yeah, I could see that guy on the street today.”

Sarah:

High-waisted pants are coming back for men and I could not be more excited. I think they look so good on men.

Jojo:

Yeah, me too. Mmhmm.

Sarah:

I think they look so good on men. I… wear more of them, dudes. They look good on you!

Jojo:

[laughs]

Sarah:

Yeah, I mean— this outfit, I could see on a TikTok guy doing fashion outfits.

Jojo:

Yeah, uh-huh. Love it.

Sarah:

Yeah, totally. And then here's one more shot of them at the end. A little more formal because they’re, you know, visiting the palace. Just a nice— he's got a stripe, which differentiates him from everybody else in the shot. And then Irving is nice sort of compliment in his lighter tone.

Jojo:

Yeah, even in this last image he looks like— I think he just has a really contemporary face, too. Maybe that's the other thing.

Sarah:

Maybe that's it, yeah. Oh, the other thing I wanted to talk about a little bit is something I learned on Wikipedia. Which is that another designer had a big hand in this, in Audrey's daytime look. And her name was Sonja de Lennart, she was a European fashion designer and she was the inventor of the Capri pant.

Jojo:

Wow!

Sarah:

Which was a just a piece in her Capri collection, but it's the only one that has retained the name Capri, because it was distinctive, and it became famous.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

So Edith Head recognized how revolutionary her Capri collection was and put it in this movie. So this belt and this skirt are from the collection, I think.

Jojo:

Ooh, nice.

Sarah:

And Audrey Hepburn went on to wear Capri pants in “Sabrina” as well.

Jojo:

Mmhmm.

Sarah:

So Edith head introduced the Capri collection to the world, basically, through Audrey Hepburn. But the Capri pants are the ones that really made a lasting legacy. And Sonja didn't get any credit, in the— you know, in this movie. But…

Jojo:

Yeah.

Sarah:

…now we know that that was her contribution.

Jojo:

Right.

Sarah:

You know, I think that's pretty common, for them to have— it's like, Edith Head designed it. And by “design,” we mean she pulled whatever she needed to pull in and put it all together, and that's designing. And that's totally valid. But I think it's important to recognize the work of Sonja.

Jojo:

Especially for such a revolutionary garment like that.

Sarah:

I know, I know.

Jojo:

And that lasted for a long time.

Sarah:

And we still call them “Capri pants”! So like, clearly it's a legacy.

Jojo:

Right!

Sarah:

So I thought that was interesting.

Jojo:

So interesting!

Sarah:

Yeah, so that's “Roman Holiday”.

Jojo:

Yay, thank you Sarah! Good job.

Sarah:

Thank you.

Jojo:

I know, it's nice to always have those extra fun facts, especially when you… I mean, we talk about costume design so much, but we also both came kind of from a fashion background as well.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

So it's like you have a little bit of that tie-in from both ends, and a lot of the same skills kind of translate through both. So I'm glad that it shows that they're working with fashion designers all the time. And even today, you'll have stylists on movies in addition to the costume designer. Sometimes they'll work together, sometimes it's kind of like they'll trade off what they work on, or what costumes they do. And so yeah, there's a lot of crossover between fashion and costumes.

Sarah:

Absolutely, and I think it's in the Wikipedia article, it was like, “she didn't get any credit.” I'm like I mean— that's not that uncommon. Like, it’s not that I think that Edith Head was stepping on her to take her success. I think it was just that she found clothes that she really liked and put them in her movie, and since she was the one who found them and put them on the actor, she was credited as a designer. And that’s— I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I do think that it's important now that we know where it came from, you know?

Jojo:

Yeah, and the hard thing, too, is that with costume designers a lot of times we are choosing clothes.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

That already exist. So like, to credit every single designer brand that's on your clothing, you know… it's like, when you do have to do that project where it's like, you have no budget and you have ten dollars to your name to try and costume 100 people. It's like, well then, a lot of stuff is gonna come from Target or Goodwill.

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

And it's like, you can't just go to a brand and say, “okay, I got that thing from Goodwill. Sorry, Goodwill needs to be credited on the…”

Sarah:

[laughs] Yeah.

Jojo:

You know, it just doesn't make sense to be crediting stuff like that. Because clothes are just a natural part of our job.

Sarah:

Exactly, especially in contemporary movies, and it was a contemporary movie at the time. So it totally makes sense.

Jojo:

Right, yeah, so… but it's good that we're recognizing that now, you know, years later. [both laugh] Better late than never, I guess.

Sarah:

Yeah, and I think she was— she had a successful career, so it's not as if Edith stole this and she never had success again. She was a successful designer, so…

Jojo:

Ah, cool. That's a fun fact.

Sarah:

It is a fun fact, right? [both laugh]

Jojo:

Cool, well that's our episode. Hopefully you guys enjoyed that! I’m hoping we get to cover more black and white movies in the future.

S arah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

There's many more out there that we we probably have on our list.

Sarah:

Totally, and I'm sure we could find some examples of contemporary movies now that are done in black and white that would be interesting to talk about.

Jojo:

Yeah, I actually I was thinking about that when I was trying to pick up which movie I wanted to cover. Because I just watched “Malcolm and Marie,” which is also all in black and white.

Sarah:

Ohh.

Jojo:

And they're literally— again, it's like one scene that happens over less than 24 hours, it's overnight, and it's just two characters the entire scene. And it's just them going back and forth between fighting, and then making up, and then fighting again.

Sarah:

Wow.

Jojo:

So it's a really interesting movie. It's definitely one of those things where it's a lot— like, it's a deep thinking movie. You have to kind of understand what the director was trying to do. But again, looking at how black and white shows up on the screen and how to really costume for that.

Sarah:

Mmhmm. Totally.

Jojo:

Definitely more movies to cover in the future.

Sarah:

Yeah, so send them send them our way if you have suggestions as always. All right!

Jojo:

Perfect! Well thank you so much for everyone who's listening. Again, don't forget to review us, we're still donating a dollar for every review that we get.

Sarah:

Yes we are!

Jojo:

Sarah, do you want to remind them what… did we pick a charity that we're donating to?

Sarah:

I think Dress for Success is a good candidate. I think we should do Dress for Success.

Jojo:

Great.

Sarah:

Because they help people find professional wardrobes so that they can get employment and stuff. And I think that that, especially right now, is an important thing to be doing.

Jojo:

Yeah, absolutely. So yes, just if you're able to review us, I believe Apple Podcasts is where you can review us?

Sarah:

Please do.

Jojo:

I don’t think you can do it on Spotify yet, right?

Sarah:

I don't think so, I've looked into it and I don't know how to do it. If you know how to do it, please do it but I don't know how. [both laugh]

Jojo:

Yeah, exactly.

Sarah:

But the ratings and the reviews are what will get us to a bigger audience. So if you like us and you want us to find more ears, then that's the best thing you can do for us.

Jojo:

Yeah. Thank you so much, for everyone who's supporting us. We've been seeing even just new followers within the last week!

Sarah:

Mmhmm.

Jojo:

Which has been really exciting. So for those of you who are new and just joining us, we're hoping you're still as excited about costumes, to talk about them every week, as we are.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Jojo:

Or, I should say, every other week. Yeah, and if you guys have suggestions on any other topics or themes that you want us to cover, or just specific movies you want us to cover, know that we are adding them to our list. [laughs] Our very extensive list. And we'll try to get to them as soon as we can.

Sarah:

Yeah, we definitely will.

Jojo:

Thanks everyone!

Sarah:

Thank you!

Jojo:

So I'm Jojo.

Sarah:

I'm Sarah.

Jojo:

Thanks for listening to The Costume Plot!

Sarah:

Thanks, bye!

Jojo:

We'll talk to you next time!

[OUTRO]

Jojo:

Thank you for listening to The Costume Plot! You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @thecostumeplot. If you have a question, comment, or movie suggestion you can email us at [email protected].

Sarah:

Our theme music is by Jesse Timm, and our artwork is by Jojo Siu. Please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

0 notes

robbieinterviews · 5 years ago

Text

Margot Robbie: Bazaar Archive, 2015

From Australia's Gold Coast to The Wolf of Wall Street, Margot Robbie is the latest girl from nowhere to become a Hollywood star

Jean Harlow was Hollywood's first 'blonde bombshell'. Not that there hadn't been fair-haired actresses in films before, all the way back to Clara Bow. But the star of Platinum Blonde was something else: 'a glowing white sexpot', according to the great lexicographer of cinema, David Thomson.

Finally a tragic figure, dead at 26, Harlow is by no means Thomson's favourite Hollywood blonde, nor Martin Scorsese's, though the latter gallantly chose Gwen Stefani to play her in The Aviator. Much more Thomson and Scorsese's speed is Carole Lombard, the smart, funny screwball star. Lombard died young too, but unlike poor Harlow, she was nobody's fool.

Neither, based on an afternoon and an evening spent in her company, is the very latest bombshell to detonate: Margot Robbie, a dazzling 24-year-old Australian who, in her breakthrough as Leonardo DiCaprio's trophy wife in Scorsese's priapic epic, The Wolf of Wall Street, as well as in her first lead role, opposite Will Smith in Focus, plays the archetypal blonde on the make: flirty, ambitious and sexually available.

I meet Robbie for lunch at the Ham Yard Hotel in central London. She arrives in a hurry – we'll soon learn she does everything in a hurry – in a vintage Rolling Stones singlet; ripped black jeans from Frame Denim; ankle boots from AllSaints; a Carven coat; and carrying a red Chanel bag.

One doesn't have to be a professional casting director to recognise that Robbie is as perfect a specimen of young womanhood as a film-maker could hope to find. With her honeyed skin, her mega-watt eyes and her widescreen smile, it's almost as if she'd arrived pre-CGI'd, a Disney princess sprung to life. Were the makers of Frozen ever to consider a live-action version of their animated phenomenon (as if they aren't already), they could do worse than cast Robbie as Elsa, the vanilla-haired ice queen, so uniform are her features, so uncomplicated is her appeal.

As a lunch date Robbie is equally fit for purpose. She's sunny, lively, unpretentious – in a word, Australian – and obviously determined to extract the maximum enjoyment from any situation. But she's no pushover: as will become clear, Robbie is also driven, dedicated and resolute. There is grit behind the grin.

Robbie is a country girl from just outside the Gold Coast, a small city in southern Queensland. In this, too, she is part of a noble tradition: the girl from nowhere who becomes a star. The Gold Coast might as well be the moon as far as Hollywood is concerned, but then, so might Kansas City, Missouri, where Jean Harlow started out; or Fort Wayne, Indiana, home town of Carole Lombard. Or even, for that matter, Orange County,where before she was Madame de Tourvel and Catwoman, Michelle Pfeiffer was a supermarket checkout girl. Pfeiffer's breakout – her bombshell moment – was as Elvira, the junkie gangster's moll in Brian De Palma's Scarface (1983). She entered the movie, and the dream lives of moviegoers, in a glass elevator, sheathed in clinging aqua-blue, her back turned to us and to Al Pacino's lust-stunned hoodlum. Pfeiffer wasn't entirely unknown in 1983, but this is where she made her indelible mark.

Margot Robbie was not without experience when The Wolf of Wall Street was released, on Christmas Day 2013. She'd done three years on the daytime soap opera Neighbours and had had a role, too, as a runaway bride in Pan Am, a jet-age American TV drama – Mad Men at 30,000 feet – that was grounded after a single series. Plus she'd played posh totty, with a very serviceable English accent, in a Richard Curtis rom-com, About Time. But to most cinemagoers she was unknown when she breezed into Scorsese's bawdy satire of late-20th-century overconsumption.

Robbie's character, Naomi Lapaglia, was described in the screenplay as 'the hottest blonde ever'. Along with 'every other actress in town', she sent in her video with no expectation that it would even be watched. It was Ellen Lewis, the eminent casting director and veteran Scorsese collaborator, who passed Robbie's video along to the director; Lewis it was who put Stefani into Jean Harlow's shoes for The Aviator and Cameron Diaz into Scorsese's Gangs of New York. When the call came for an audition, Robbie was in London. She remembers the date – 3 June 2012 – because it was the Queen's Diamond Jubilee weekend, and she'd been invited to join some fellow Aussies for a picnic: an all-day event that turned into an all-nighter.

Over to Robbie for what happened next: 'I get home at six in the morning to all these missed phone calls and my team is saying, "You are on a plane in a couple of hours to New York to read with Martin Scorsese and Leonardo DiCaprio." So: race to the airport, get to New York, go straight to see Ellen Lewis, she takes one look at me, I'm wearing jeans, flat boots, and she says, "No. Here's what you're going to do: SoHo's right there. Lots of stores. You're going to get a really tight, short dress and the highest pair of heels you can find."'

Cut to the audition the following day. 'OK, so: big open room, video camera, Ellen Lewis is filming. Just me, Marty and Leo.' In the scene, Robbie's character and DiCaprio's character, the degenerate financier Jordan Belfort – the Wolf of the title – are on their first date. 'We get three lines into it and he says something and, subconsciously, I roll my eyes. And Leo's like, "What was that look for?" And I'm thinking, in my head: "That's not a line! Is he really asking me that? Should I explain?" And then I realise he's ad-libbing. I'm like, "Oh, shit. He's improvising! I need to improvise now!"

'So I'm failing miserably. And Leo's phenomenal. He's powerful. He can do his part and he can do your part at the same time with his eyes closed. I'm barely getting a word in. When I do it's not anything interesting – I just look pathetic.'

Next scene. The characters are now married, and mid-argument. Robbie again: 'In my head I was like, "You have literally 30 seconds left in this room and if you don't do something impressive nothing will ever come of it. It's a once-in-a-lifetime chance, just take it." And so I start screaming at him and he's yelling back at me. And he's really scary. I can barely keep up. And he ends it saying, "You should be happy to have a husband like me. Now get over here and kiss me." So I walk up really close to his face and then I'm like, "Maybe I should kiss him. When else am I ever going to get a chance to kiss Leo DiCaprio, ever?" But another part of my brain clicks and I just go, Whack! I hit him in the face. And then I scream, "Fuck you!" And that's not in the script at all. The room just went dead silent and I froze.

'I'm thinking, "You just hit Leonardo DiCaprio in the face. They're going to arrest you because that's assault. You're definitely never going to work again, that's for sure. They'll probably sue you as well in case there's a bruise on his face and he needs to film something else."

'And then all of a sudden Marty and Leo just burst out laughing. Marty says, "That was great!" Leo's like, "Hit me again!"'

A week later they called her back in and offered her the part. 'I walked out, got in the elevator, and did that silent stupid dance you do.' She was 22. The film changed her life. 'Totally. None of this would have happened without it. Or if it did, it would have taken another five years, 10 years.'

That last bit sounds speculative. But I suspect she fully believes she would have got here anyway, eventually, without Marty and Leo and Ellen Lewis and that panicked celebrity face-slap. The way she tells it, she never lacked for self-belief.

Maggot, as she is known by friends and family, is from fruit-farming stock on both sides, the third of four children – girl, boy, girl, boy – raised by a single mother, Sarie. Her childhood was spent shuttling between the mountains near the Gold Coast and a small country town, Dalby, where most of her extended family lives. It was, she says, a relatively simple life, rural and outdoorsy.

Sarie – the spitting image, I'm told, of her famous daughter – is a physiotherapist who worked with the elderly when her children were younger, and now does the same for disabled kids. ('Heart of gold,' says her daughter, whose most cherished accomplishment to date is the fact that, on her mother's 60th birthday last year, Robbie was able to pay off the mortgage on Sarie's house.)

Robbie's contact with her father, a former farm-owner, is, she says, limited. When I ask what qualities she shares with her dad she says: 'None. Nothing. I'm not like him at all.' It's the only time she seems reluctant to expand on a topic.

She studied drama at school but had no expectation that she would ever do it professionally. But when she was 16 – simultaneously cleaning houses, making sandwiches in Subway and working in a surf store to make ends meet – she was approached to act in a low-budget B movie, shooting nearby. She's embarrassed, now, about this and another one – she says she's never seen either and doesn't think they were even released – but they were her start. She found an agent, auditioned for a TV show and, at 17, found herself for the first time in Melbourne, friendless and all but penniless, sleeping on the couch of a 'scary-looking dude' called Mark who turned out to be 'the loveliest person in the world'.

She put in repeated calls to the makers of Neighbours and finally won an audition and a part. She got the call when she was in Canada, on a snowboarding trip with her then boyfriend, 'driving around in a van that didn't have a door'. She had to borrow the money for the flight home and turned up on set in Melbourne with a snowboard. 'I started immediately – I didn't even get back to the Gold Coast to pick up clothes for a couple of weeks. Worked five days a week, 17 hours a day, full on. That was my life for the next three years.'

Here's the really ambitious part. Almost as soon as she got the job on Neighbours, she started preparing for Hollywood: saving money, taking acting classes on her days off, employing a dialect coach to teach her to speak with an American accent, endlessly badgering her new agent to get her auditions in LA. Five days after her three-year Neighbours contract ended, she moved to California.

In LA she auditioned for a TV remake of Charlie's Angels and was offered Pan Aminstead. That took her to New York, where she spent most of her 21st year; and, in the summer of 2012, The Wolf of Wall Street, and the stardom that amorality can bring.

Robbie's character is introduced in DiCaprio's voiceover, reverentially, as 'a former model and Miller Lite Girl', as if there could be no greater qualification for a wife and mother – or higher aspiration for a woman. We glimpse her briefly, writhing on a bed in her underwear. But to meet her properly, DiCaprio must wait until he throws a party, which she enters, like Pfeiffer's Elvira, in an electric-blue dress, on the arm of another man, quickly disposed of. Her cutie-pie voice is laced with vituperative venom and a thick Brooklyn twang. She seduces DiCaprio by the simple expedient of quickly removing all her clothes and later teases him by flashing him in their daughter's nursery: 'Mommy is just so sick and tired of wearing panties,' she mews. Then she pushes her stiletto heel into his face.

'She might be manipulative and conniving, but she's fearless,' says Robbie of Naomi. 'She grew up in Brooklyn and she wants a better life and she's like, "I can get it from this guy." And the way she manipulates him and drives him crazy is with her sexuality. She is such a bad-ass. She's like, "Fuck it, if that's what it takes, then I've got that. I've got it in spades. Boom!"'

Boom, indeed. As you might expect, one of the more impactful Hollywood debuts of recent years opened plenty of doors, and Robbie has been glad to step through them. In Suite Française, the screen adaptation of Irène Némirovsky's novel of France under Nazi occupation, Robbie had a small part, her first non-blonde, as a defiant farm girl. For Focus, out now, she's back to bombshell, as a thief who steals the heart of Will Smith's con man, with the help of a pink bandage dress that she hated wearing and a killer black bikini. The film is a glossy divertissement, with just enough verve that you don't really mind the fact your pocket is being picked. And of course, Robbie looks sensational.

Also in the can: Z for Zachariah, with Chiwetel Ejiofor and Chris Pine as the other points of a post-apocalyptic love triangle. Then, later this year, Robbie will begin work on a comic-book blockbuster, Suicide Squad, with Smith again, plus Cara Delevingne and Jared Leto. And, just as Michelle Pfeiffer parlayed Elvira into Catwoman in Batman Returns, so Robbie's turn as Naomi wins her the part of a comic-book femme fatale, in her case Harley Quinn (say it out loud for a clue as to what she'll be wearing).

Before that she'll be swinging through the trees in a new big-screen Tarzan, with Alexander Skarsgard as the lord of the jungle and Robbie as Jane. That one took up most of her 2014, shooting in England – which was convenient, because in January of last year she decided to become a Londoner. She shares a house in Clapham with Sophia, her assistant and best friend from back home, as well as three Englishmen, all met on film sets over the past few years. 'It's the most fun ever,' she says of life in leafy south London. 'We're like a little family.' An ideal family weekend? 'Infernos!' she all but shouts. She's then incredulous to discover I've never heard of the place. 'You don't know what Infernos is? Well, according to the sign outside, it's the best club south of the river. It's notorious.' Incredible but true: at least every other Friday, a visitor to Infernos will likely be able to witness Hollywood's hottest bombshell on the podium, giving it everything she's got to the Backstreet Boys or 50 Cent, or the Baywatch theme. 'Anything goes at Infernos,' she says. Before the young men of London begin a stampede to Clapham, Robbie has news. 'I'm officially off the market,' she confesses, confirming that she has a boyfriend: an Englishman, Tom Ackerley, an assistant director she befriended while shooting Suite Française in Belgium.

It sounds to me, I say, like she's having a rather good time. In fact, she says, the only clouds on her horizon are those that always shadow modern rise-to-fame stories: a rapacious tabloid press, pestilent paparazzi and mean-spirited below-the-line internet commentators. The unwelcome attentions of the press are well documented; so much so that even though the experiences are extreme – Robbie tells me she is frequently left 'shaking like a leaf and almost in tears' following a paparazzi pursuit, and that just passing through an airport has become so traumatic that 'I can't sleep for three nights before a flight because I'm so anxious about it' – she understands that people are tired of hearing it.

Less often discussed are the pressures the entertainment industry puts on those same young women to conform to strict codes of behaviour, if only to ensure that their personal brand remains intact so that they can win endorsements. 'For example,' she says, 'for a while, photographers stood outside my house waiting for me to look my absolute worst. They would follow me and wait and wait and wait and hide. The minute I eat a burger, drink a beer, have no make-up, they will take 10 million pictures and pick out the three that look the most heinous and post those. Then everyone tears it apart. But I can deal with that, that's fine – if you want to be an actor you have got to deal with that kind of stuff and I can.

'But then I get a whole bunch of phone calls from the studio that I'm currently working for. "Why are we paying for a personal trainer?", "Why is she eating a hamburger?" They're angry, your team's angry, you're having to appease everyone.'

Hold on, I say. They're angry with you for being photographed having a burger?

'For having a hamburger. I'll sit on the phone for hours and get berated for that.'

The sense of being constricted is powerful. While filming Focus in Buenos Aires last year, after Will Smith declined to join her and friends on a trip for ice-cream, Robbie challenged him. 'I said, "Come with us, we're having such fun, come get ice-cream." And he said, "I can't". And I said, "I think you think you can't because you're so used to being in a big black car. But maybe if you just tried it you'd realise that it's actually not that crazy.

'And he said, "OK, Margot, let's go get ice-cream." Walk out, boom! Crowd of people mob him, he's surrounded, his bodyguard has to fight these people off him. And afterwards I said, "I'm so sorry, you're right. In future we'll bring you back ice-cream." It sucks.'

Is she prepared for that, if things keep going the way they are? 'No, I would hate that. I don't ever want that life. I mean, I've seen what people like Leo and Will's lives are like. It's weird, though. Once you have this momentum, it's kind of too late to turn it around. I don't really have an answer to it. I haven't played out the scenario in my head where I can't go to get ice-cream because there's a mob of people. I haven't had enough time to dwell on it, I suppose, which is probably a good thing. Just keep moving and figure it out as you go.

It's probably not a great plan, but it's my plan.' She laughs, and shrugs. The night of our interview I meet Robbie again, at Harper's Bazaar's Women of the Year Awards, where she collects the prize for Breakthrough star. Stunning in a backless canary-yellow dress, she makes a witty and gracious speech and then returns to the table where we're sitting with Sophia, one of her managers, and her friend, the model Suki Waterhouse. Robbie insists we do a tequila shot with her, and then another. But she can't really let her hair down because she's on a plane to Australia in the morning.

All her life Margot Robbie's been in a hurry. Now, for the first time ever, she occasionally would like things to slow down. 'I'm like, "This is spiralling out of control. Give me a week off. I'm tired."' I tell her I hope she'll have a chance soon to catch her breath. But then she reconsiders. 'I've never really been good at moving at any other kind of pace anyway,' she says. 'I don't know how to.' Spoken like a true bombshell.

0 notes